In this exclusive interview, the founder Sun Bo was invited to lead us to discuss the differentiated advantages of the Metaverse virtual digital human.
Q1: Nice to meet Mr. Sun, what do you think of the current development situation of the metaverse track from the perspective of entrepreneurs? Shanghai and Hong Kong have issued a series of policies one after another. Why is Metaverse so important?
Sun Bo: I think the introduction of these policies is because both the government and industry experts believe that the future era belongs to the Metaverse. Whether it is Industry 4.0 abroad or Made in China 2025, the scale of data in the manufacturing and financial industries is getting larger and more diverse, so the future must be the era of the Metaverse. We also believe that immortality will be carried out in the bit world in the future, so whether it is China or foreign countries and regions, the development of this field is inevitable.
Q2: You have experienced entrepreneurship in the Internet era. Compared with the Internet, what similar logic do you think the metaverse track has, and what are the different opportunities?
Sun Bo: I don't think there is a big difference. The development curve of human society will only get faster and faster. We used to only need to please consumers, but now in the era of artificial intelligence, we only need to please algorithms.
Q3: What kind of products or services do we make, and what kind of users are we targeting at To B or To C?
Sun Bo: The company's current products are mainly metaverse virtual humans, and the scene positioning includes both To B and To C.
To B is divided into two types: ToB is currently doing metaverse conferences, exhibitions, fitness and cultural tourism projects in a project-based way; Tob is a live broadcast system and short video recording for virtual digital humans.
To B and To C may essentially only differ in the charging mode (the payment logic and purchase method are different).
Q4: Why did you see the To B scene? Compared with the imaginary space of To C, is To B better implemented?
Sun Bo: I think the biggest market in the future will be To C, just like the largest animal in nature, the whale (enterprise), he eats the smallest shrimp (C side), so the giant enterprise must be To C. At present, the top 100 companies in the world are basically To C.
Q5: Compared with ai face change, is Zhongzhiren less restrictive and faster to promote on the platform? The underlying logic of the business model is to increase followers?
Sun Bo: We have done AI face swapping for many years. Although the traffic is very good, this is an act of infringing on celebrities and looting traffic, which is not compliant in terms of platform and morality. Right now in the market is Zhongzhiren. We have calculated that the data gap between AI-driven and Zhongzhiren is about 10,000 times, so Zhongzhiren cannot be replaced.
Q6: Compared with AI face-changing, Zhongzhiren is more in line with the needs of B-end users?
Sun Bo: The AI face-changing platform does not give traffic, and regular merchants cannot promote it (such as coconut milk products). Although Zhongzhiren has high initial learning costs, the IP produced will always belong to the company, so there is no need to worry about being affected by negative news about celebrities, and the marketing expenses invested in the market will eventually be converted into an increase in intangible assets.
Q7: There is a view that core technology is the moat of an enterprise, and some enterprises believe that getting customers to pay to increase market share is the key. What do you think of the two business thinking of doing well and doing more?
Sun Bo: I have many friends who come from scientific research institutes. Their technical background is very strong, but the companies they build are easy to die. Good technology cannot make a company truly survive, but scale and market share are the most important.
A moat can only be established when an enterprise has a certain scale. Market share means having pricing power. is the core.
Q8: At present, for example, last year’s Double Eleven Kuaishou’s virtual anchor and Baidu’s Yuanyu Songhui have gained a large number of fans in a short period of time. What impact or opportunity do you think the big companies will have on our startups?
Sun Bo: Looking back, the input-output ratio of small and medium-sized enterprises is the highest, and the restrictions of large enterprises are relatively high, so large enterprises are more willing to acquire entrepreneurial projects efficiently. The behavior of big companies to follow the trend can gain a large number of fans and make the market and industry more popular. On the contrary, it will promote the entry of small and medium-sized enterprises into the market and increase the overall income.
Q9: At present, for example, last year’s Double Eleven Kuaishou’s virtual anchor and Baidu’s Metaverse Song Club have gained a large number of fans in a short period of time. What impact or opportunity do you think the big companies will have on our startups?
Sun Bo: The hottest term in Metaverse is Web3, and it will be Web4 in the future. Whether it is the financial system or the confirmation system of individual stocks, Web3 is a distributed and decentralized economic form, and Web4 will eventually form centralization and monopoly in the data field.
We are also making virtual digital humans that users can freely pinch their faces to expand the market. Only by running fast enough can we lead others and enhance our hematopoietic ability.
In the long run, there is no essential difference between the long-termism of the Metaverse and the traditional Internet. Metaverse is a universe of pure data. In the future, it may be the consumption of behavioral data, such as virtual party building (restore historical figures), digital immortality (restore yourself), and virtual commemoration of deceased relatives. Therefore, I think data is the core of Metaverse.
Q10: Finally, what future judgments do you have for the To B scene?Sun Bo: At present, most of the income of our virtual digital human comes from the live broadcast business.
To B is a good direction, and investors are more willing to look at the business of To B. But recently, due to domestic and foreign inflation problems or government budget tightening, To B is not so popular. To B or "To B is free, and the C end makes money" is also a sustainable development path.
Some investors asked, "How much fans can the virtual digital human IP achieve in the future, and can it be a virtual Li Jiaqi or a virtual idol in the live broadcast application?"
I think that in a few years, there will be no such thing as live streaming, and there will be virtual butlers covering all aspects of life in the future. The current derivative impact of online car-hailing on FM can be seen as the impact of the metaverse on the real society in the future, which will greatly subvert our lives.
本期专访邀请到了创始人孙博带领我们共同探讨元宇宙虚拟数字人 的差异化优势。
Q1：幸会孙总，从创业者角度怎么看元宇宙赛道目前的发展形势？上海香港陆续出台一系列政策，元宇宙为什么受到如此重视？
孙博：我觉得这些政策的出台，是因为政府和行业专家都认为未来的时代属于元宇宙。无论是国外的工业4.0还是中国制造2025，在制造业、金融业中数据规模越来越庞大、种类也越来越多，所以未来一定是元宇宙的时代。我们也认为未来会在比特世界里面进行永生，所以无论是中国还是国外的国家和地区，这个领域的发展是必然的。
Q2：您经历过互联网时代创业，相比互联网，认为元宇宙赛道有何相似逻辑，有何差异性机遇？
孙博：我认为没有特别大的差异。人类社会发展曲线只会越来越快，原来我们只需要讨好消费者，现在人工智能时代只需要讨好算法。
Q3：咱们做的产品或服务是什么，场景定位在To B还是To C面向哪一类用户？
孙博：公司现在的产品以元宇宙虚拟人为主，场景定位既有To B也有To C。
To B分为两种：ToB目前以项目制的方式在做元宇宙的会议、会展、健身以及文旅项目；Tob是虚拟数字人的直播系统和短视频录制。
To B和To C本质上可能只在收费的模式上有区别（支付逻辑和购买方式不同）。
Q4：为什么看到To B场景？相比To C的想象空间，To B是不是更好落地？
孙博：我认为未来最大的市场是To C，就像自然界中最大的动物鲸鱼（企业）他是吃最小的虾米（C端），所以巨无霸的企业一定是To C的。目前世界上top 100的公司基本上都是To C的。
Q5：中之人相比ai换脸，在平台是不是限制更少推广更快？商业模式的底层逻辑是增粉？
孙博：我们做过很多年的AI换脸，虽然流量很好，但这是一种侵害名人蹭流量的行为，在平台和道义上不合规。目前市场上合适的是中之人，我们测算过AI驱动和中之人的数据量差距大概有1万倍，所以中之人不能被替代。
Q6：中之人与AI换脸相比，更符合B端用户怎样的需求？
孙博：AI换脸平台不给流量，正规的商家是无法进行推广的（比如椰汁产品）。中之人虽然初期学习成本高，但做出来的IP永远属于公司，不用担心被明星负面新闻影响，且投入市场的营销费用最终会转化成无形资产的提升。
Q7：有种观点认为核心技术是企业的护城河，有些企业认为让客户买单提高市场占有率是关键，您怎么看待做好和做多这两种商业思维？
孙博：我身边有很多朋友是从科研院所出来，他们的技术背景非常强，但建立的公司很容易死掉。好的技术并不能让公司真正活下来，而规模、市场占有率才是最重要的。
当企业有所规模后，才能建立护城河，市场占有率意味着拥有定价权，对于大企业来说，市场占有率是决定性因素，做多往往意味着公司必须做得足够好，所以我认为做多才是核心。
Q8：目前例如去年双十一快手的虚拟主播、百度的元宇宙歌会，短期收获大批粉丝，您认为大厂蹭风口会对咱们创业企业有哪些影响或机遇？
孙博：回顾之前，中小企业的投入产出比是最高的，大企业的限制相对高很多，因此大企业更愿意高效率地去收购创业项目。大厂蹭风口这个行为可以收获大量粉丝，让市场和行业变得更火热，反而会促进中小企业投入市场，提高整体收益。
Q9：目前例如去年双十一快手的虚拟主播、百度的元宇宙歌会，短期收获大批粉丝，您认为大厂蹭风口会对咱们创业企业有哪些影响或机遇？
孙博：元宇宙目前最火的词语是Web3，未来会是Web4。无论是金融体系还是个股上的确权体系，Web3是一种分布式、去中心化的经济形式，Web4最后一定会在数据领域形成集权和垄断。
我们也在做用户可以自由捏脸的虚拟数字人，来拓展市场，只有跑的足够快才能领先别人，增强造血能力。
从长期来看，元宇宙的长期主义和传统互联网是没有本质区别。元宇宙是一个纯数据的宇宙，未来可能是行为数据的消费，例如虚拟党建（还原历史人物）、数字永生（还原自己）、虚拟纪念逝去的亲人，所以我觉得数据是元宇宙的核心。
Q10：最后，对To B场景有哪些未来判断？
孙博：目前我们的虚拟数字人的大部分收入来自直播业务。
To B是一个很好的方向，投资人目前也比较愿意看To B的业务。但最近因为国内外的通胀问题或是政府的预算收紧，To B也没有那么香了。To B或者“To B免费，C端挣钱”也是一条可持续发展的道路。
有投资人问 “未来的虚拟数字人IP能够做到多大的粉丝量，在直播应用中能做虚拟李佳琦或虚拟偶像吗？”
我认为可能过几年就不会有直播带货这个事情了，未来生活中会有涵盖各方面的虚拟管家。当前网约车对FM的衍生性影响，可以看作元宇宙在未来对现实社会产生的影响，将会极大地颠覆我们的生活。
选自搜狐【项目专访】
Published on 16 November 2022 at 17:56
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